Prohormones & PCT's what should I be taking and what should I be avoiding?

[Tryme]

Hello my name is martin i live in Los Angeles CA I'm 30 years old and would like to thank anyone who takes the time to respond to my post.

I am just getting back to lifting after a considerable amount of time off and am looking to get back into it in a big way.  I have a solid diet and protein plan but my knowledge on prohormones and pct's is seriously lacking.  The last thing i really took was Bold200,  I realize that this is now unavailable but am wondering if there is a similar product on the market and what should i be taking with a product like bold to really see some good gains with the least amount of side effects. 

I apologize in advance for my newbieness and would appreciate any help or suggestions on supplements i should be taking or that you might recommend.  I apologize if this question is in the wrong area, i posted it in the introduction forum and was told by another member it would get a better response here.

The only supplements i am currently taking are:

Myoplex
Vitargo
Glutamine
Kre-alkalyn
Halo
BC+EAA
Bold200 (have about half a bottle left from preban)

[cse7663]

Hey brother Martin, welcome to TSR! I just wanted to say congrats on getn back into the Gym!!  I wish I could help you with your supp questions but I am still learning myself so I personally don't know anything about them..s*** I just tried Green Tea for the first time today and I'm freakn out on that!!...Just kidn, anyway..The supp Generals will surely assist you soon..Good to have you bro..Los Angelas???  whoa...cool.

CSE.

[Tryme]

Thanks for the post cse, much appreciated and yeah I'm from good ol LA. Mmm greentea.

[Matty28]

I'm with CSE on this one, I'm pretty much a n00b on PH's and their compounds. Unfortunately, a lot of PH's have been banned during your hiatus  .

If you go the forum and click on the PH section you'll find a lot of informative stuff.

Hope this helps a little.

[steelfan10]

Bold 200 is definitely a milder Ph, but that may be beside the point.

If your just getting back into lifting, then I would highly suggest you take time to lift and get a little bit more experience before you mess with anything hormonal. Honestly a good couple years should be any minimum for anyone to even consider using any prohormone.

Probably not the answer you were looking for, but it definitely is the safest option.

Now because of your age, you could consider a natural test booster. It has just about zero side effects and could be very effective for you now.

[HarryMuscles]

A popular, natural PH is Tribulus Terrestris, available in many products.
Also look into ZMA. It's very mild, but it helps you sleep and recover well.

[steelfan10]

A popular, natural PH is Tribulus Terrestris, available in many products.
Also look into ZMA. It's very mild, but it helps you sleep and recover well.

Sorry Harry, but Tribulus is not a natural PH.

Prohormones are substances that are converted to a steroid in your body, and thus could shut down anyone's natural testosterone production.

Tribulus on the other hand supposedly raises testosterone natually. This means that it enhances the body's test production, but does not replace it.

It can be a little confusing, but there's a huge difference between the two.

[HarryMuscles]

My bad. I meant to say natural testosterone booster in place of natural PH, but I didn't know the exact definition of a PH in the first place. Thanks for clearing up what a prohormone actually is.
Embarrassing, really  .

[Tryme]

Well when I say "just" getting back into I mean around 6 months.  I realize this is not the two years you suggested but I figure probly a little longer than you had assumed.

I am not new to lifting but am new to the ph and pct game. My diet and protein consumption are on point and I feel comfortable with where I am at in my workout to take it to the next level. I could really use some suggestions on current available ph's I could take to help me see some big gains and because I am not familiar with ph's I would Also appreciate any suggestions on pct's to take with the appropriate ph.

I appeciate your advice and the time you took to post.

[steelfan10]

My bad. I meant to say natural testosterone booster in place of natural PH, but I didn't know the exact definition of a PH in the first place. Thanks for clearing up what a prohormone actually is.
Embarrassing, really  .

Haha don't be man, we all make mistakes and plus no harm done anyways  

[steelfan10]

Well when I say "just" getting back into I mean around 6 months.  I realize this is not the two years you suggested but I figure probly a little longer than you had assumed.

I am not new to lifting but am new to the ph and pct game. My diet and protein consumption are on point and I feel comfortable with where I am at in my workout to take it to the next level. I could really use some suggestions on current available ph's I could take to help me see some big gains and because I am not familiar with ph's I would Also appreciate any suggestions on pct's to take with the appropriate ph.

I appeciate your advice and the time you took to post.

No problem man,

Well first off, finding a PH out there now is rough to say the least. Since the new prohormone ban hit, most websites have pulled all of their PH's off of the shelf. You can still get them from a select few sites out there, but their all getting harder and harder to find.

Maybe its just me, but I still see a lot of competitive edge labs stuff out there, which is a company that makes its buisness off of clones of other PH's.

As for pct's and cycle support, there's a million things I could write in this category. Everyone at least needs fish or flax oil, coq10, a good multi vitamin, and liver support (ideally pre loaded at least 2 weeks in advance).

Now for a pct, I believe a SERM is a must for any cycle (nolvadex or clomid) along with your pct, a natural test booster should be ran, and an AI also to be safe.

This is a rough overview, but to plan a cycle is a lot of work. Read up about it, do some research, and get familiar with everything before you consider using anything. Hang out on the forum too, you'll be surprised how much you learn. But even with your 6 months of lifting you still should at least wait a year and a half or longer before using anything like this.

[Emery]

This is an interesting article with peer reviewed research. Might give it a read. Good information on Tribulus terrestris.

Tribulus terrestris has no hormonal effects


The claims made by Tribulus terrestris supplements sellers are unfounded. Physiologists at the Universidade Federal do Parana in Brazil come to this conclusion in an animal study that will be published soon in the Journal of Ethnopharmacology. In experiments that they did, tribulus had no hormonal effects on rats.

 

In countries around the Mediterranean, herbal healers traditionally use extracts of the plant Tribulus terrestris as a remedy for infertility and impotence problems. Modern scientific studies have also confirmed the efficacy of tribulus for these complaints. In addition, however, the supplements industry started selling the same tribulus as a sports supplement, claiming that tribulus raises testosterone levels. One theory that supplements companies use to support their claims is that natural steroid compounds in tribulus are converted into DHEA or another testosterone prohormone.


The Brazilians decided to see whether this theory holds water. They gave the tribulus supplement Androsten, produced by the Brazilian supplements company Herbarium, to rats for a period of 28 days in doses of 11, 42 and 110 mg per kg bodyweight. The lowest dose is equivalent to the usual dose used by humans. Other groups of rats were given a daily 5 mg dose of DHEA per kg bodyweight, about ten times the amount that supplements companies advise humans to take, or 0.25 mg/kg testosterone propionate or 0.1 mg/kg ethinyl estradiol. The researchers administered all the hormones, dissolved in rapeseed oil, orally.


The tribulus extracts had no androgenic effect on castrated rats. The animals’ prostates did not grow as a result of being given tribulus. The testosterone propionate supplement, however, did have a growth-enhancing effect on the prostate.



 




 




When the researchers examined the faeces of the rats in the tribulus groups and compared them with those of the rats that had been given DHEA, they found that the faeces of the latter group contained more metabolites of male sex hormones. The faeces of the rats in the tribulus groups contained the same amounts of androgens as the faeces of the rats that had not had any supplements. So the theory that compounds in Tribulus terrestris are converted into DHEA or related steroid hormones does not hold water.


In female rats whose ovaries had been removed the tribulus extracts also had no hormonal effects, the Brazilians discovered when they compared cells from the uteruses of rats in the different groups.





 




A high dose of tribulus – but not the highest dose – did raise the testosterone level of the non-castrated rats, but the effect was not significant.





 




"Tribulus terrestris is not able to stimulate endocrine sensitive tissues such as the prostate, seminal vesicles, uterus and vagina in Wistar rats, indicating lack of androgenic and estrogenic activity in vivo", the researchers conclude. "We also showed an unchanged level of circulating androgens." The fertility of the rats was improved by the tribulus though.


It was already known that the manufacturers’ claims for tribulus supplements are not true. In 2008, doping hunters at the University of Lausanne in Switzerland reported that they had not been able to find any hormonal effects in tribulus users. Three years before, Bulgarian researchers had discovered that healthy men do not produce more testosterone as a result of taking Tribulus terrestris, [J Ethnopharmacol. 2005 Oct 3;101(1-3):319-23.] and five years before that, sports scientists at the University of Nebraska reported that power athletes had nothing to gain from taking tribulus. [Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2000 Jun;10(2):208-15.]


A Tribulus variety that may have some effect is Tribulus alatus.


Source:
J Ethnopharmacol. 2009 Sep 22. [Epub ahead of print].



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[cse7663]

Interesting Emery, and I had seen all the reports as well but I just still had to try some..still got a couple of bottles if anyone wants em.. I do however, considering I'm an old mutha f***a..consume 4 different foods each day that has helped in keeping me fired up, and keeping me feeling young..supposedly natural T boosters. Cheap, user friendly, easy to get, taste good too..

These 4 have been tested and documentation is available anywhere on the web to support the claims, and they have'nt failed me yet..


CSE.

[HarryMuscles]

Well sounds like you're going to have to juice, Tryme... no I'm kidding.

Emery, nice collection of info, one question though.
One study said that ZMA did not raise testosterone, but another study said that more magnesium led to more free testosterone. What is the difference here? Is it that your body is using the testosterone already there in a more efficient way?

[Emery]

Well sounds like you're going to have to juice, Tryme... no I'm kidding.

Emery, nice collection of info, one question though.
One study said that ZMA did not raise testosterone, but another study said that more magnesium led to more free testosterone. What is the difference here? Is it that your body is using the testosterone already there in a more efficient way?

Check out www.ergo-log.com for info on ZMA and other supplements. They have some interesting peer reviewed research on there relevant to all of us bodybuilders! I think the site actually has research on ZMA, so check it out!